Thailand Fever and My Own Adventures

Discussion of Thai-Western relationships and the book, "Thailand Fever."
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Beamer
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:30 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Thailand Fever and My Own Adventures

Post by Beamer » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:44 am

Hello fellow forum folks!

I just finished reading Thailand Fever and thought it was a great book. It explains quite a bit about how to make a farang-thai relationship work bearing in mind the huge cultural differences. It is too bad I didn't have this book 9 years ago when I met my wife! We have been married for almost 7 years now. She is away for the weekend, but when she gets back I will have her read it as well. I thought I would write here to share some of my comments about the book as well as my personal story. This may get long, so I may split it into parts. I would love to hear your stories as well!

First, some background on myself and my wife. Just to keep real names out of this, let's call her Mary. I am an American, 32 years old, and she is Thai, 30 years old. Mary grew up in Bangkok with her mother (her father died in a motorcycle accident when she was only 3), then moved to Rayong for her high school years. She grew up middle class, with her mother holding a nice government job and well respected around town, but all-in-all she still had a rough childhood compared to her peers. I'll spare all those details, as it is a long story in itself. She came here to the US to attend college (her mother's demand, Mary had no interest in coming here whatsoever). She had already been here for 2 years when I met her through a friend. It is safe to say, especially after reading the book, that in her 2 years here she was already starting to become a bit westernized. I have always had a thing for Asian women, so I was thrilled when we started dating and things were going well.

Early on in our relationship, I started learning little bits about Thai culture, both through experience and simply asking. I was always asking her things, as I was fascinated about Thailand now that I was with her. However, I learned the hard way that the head is considered the highest body part. I also quickly learned that putting her school books on the floor to get them out of the way was a big mistake. And oh my, her almost violent reaction when I teasingly poked her with my toe! Oops. I started learning some basic Thai words and I learned the wai (bow). I enjoyed watching Thai movies. She worked at a small Thai restaurant, so I started meeting more and more Thai people. Sometimes we would go to a Thai temple about 1.5 hours away, which was always an interesting (and sometimes overwhelming!) experience. Nowadays, I no longer feel out of place at the temple. The monks are very familiar with me, and really appreciate when I help them do video and photo documentation of special events. Everyone there is great. It was quickly clear to me that the Thai people were wonderful, pleasant people. I was happy with my new life adventure.

One of Mary's funny quirks that bugged me early on was something that would happen every time we went to the video rental store. I would ask her what movie she wanted to watch, but she would always answer "whatever you like, honey." I would say that I picked the last 5 times and it was her turn, but nope, she wouldn't budge. I would end up picking some cheesy chick-flick or horror movie that I knew she secretly wanted to watch. Before meeting her, I had heard stereotypes that some Asian women were submissive and man-pleasers, but never really believed them until this started happening. I then thought that perhaps there was some truth to the stereotypes. In hindsight, after reading Thailand Fever, I was clearly dealing with her avoiding conflict and showing deference. After quite a few trips to the video store, I finally got her to be comfortable picking her own movie. I wanted her to be able to make her own decisions, and this was progress.

Another thing the book mentions is privacy. There were some tense moments around this issue sprinkled here and there in our lives. She couldn't understand why I wouldn't want her in the bathroom when all I was doing was peeing. We were already having sex, so it's not that I was shy about her seeing a certain body part, I just wanted my space! We spent almost 100% of our non-working time together, the crazy young lovers that we were, so that minute in the bathroom was a moment to be alone. She also liked to try to read over my shoulder when I was writing emails to friends or coworkers. I would get agitated and close the window, and then she would be upset because I "was hiding something." Nothing to hide, just a personal communication between me and someone else that had nothing to do with her. I also had to tell her that her sometimes too-frequent phone calls were a bit too much, and that if she called less I would still understand that she loved me.

Mary was always very generous and giving, to me and all her friends. Her extreme generosity towards her friends ended up damaging several friendships, which at first sounds counter-intuitive. She gave them the world and couldn't understand why she got so little in return, leading her to sometimes get upset with them. At the time, I told her that her expectations were unreasonable, but now at least I know where this comes from. She also gave more to me (including non-tangible things) than I possibly knew how to give back. It made me uncomfortable at times. She rarely asked for money, but I tried my best to give her little things and do nice things to make her happy. It must have worked, because she stayed with me, and when I proposed to her, her response was a joyous yes.

(More to follow)

Beamer
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:30 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Post by Beamer » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:50 am

(Continued from above)

After she accepted my proposal for marriage (which was about 1.5 years into our relationship), I asked her about giving a dowry to her mother back in Thailand. She laughed at me and said her mom wouldn't want that. She was very shocked and impressed that I even knew about the concept of a dowry, as she knew it didn't exist in the US (this white boy had done his homework!). I told her that I understood it was an important Thai custom, and I begged her to talk to her mom about it. She agreed to talk about it, and to paraphrase, her mother's response was something like "don't be silly, that's old fashioned!" Neato, this was going to save me a lot of money, and bonus points for having a pretty cool mother-in-law. Extra bonus points for me not having to explain this awkward dowry thing to my family, which most likely would have caused them to be suspicious of her intentions.

For our honeymoon, we went to Thailand for 3 weeks. This was great, because I got to see where she came from, and she got to see her family for the first time in 6 years. When we got there, she changed quite a bit, which surprised and confused me (until she explained). For starters, in the US, one of her favorite articles of clothing was a mini-skirt. She always dressed a mix of sexy and cute, and who was I to complain! But in Thailand, she hadn't packed a single mini-skirt. She wore mostly jeans and longer skirts. One thing that bothered me was her insistance that we stay somewhat apart when out in public. She had explained about public affection and the prostitute stigma, but it still upset me. She's my wife! Who cares what the strangers think, but oh well. In all, I loved being in Thailand. I fell in love with the country, and felt at home despite being so out of place and having everyone stare at me. Believe me, I did not want to go back home.

I have to say that Mary's mother is probably the best mother-in-law I could have asked for (besides the fact that she is half a world away, haha, sorry). She is very laid back and doesn't stick too strongly to a lot of the traditional Thai customs. I suppose living in Bangkok most of her life has a lot to do with that. In fact, the entire section about parents in the book pretty much does not apply to me at all. No dowry. She was very relaxed on how I addressed her, though I preferred to address her formally. She loved it if I just ran up to her and gave her a big bear hug. She even came out to the club with us at RCA one night and had a blast dancing with my wife's friends. Clearly she was young at heart, and I liked that. What really surprised me, however, was when she came with us to Patpong one night. My wife wanted to take me there so I could see the wilder side of Bangkok, including going to a "ping pong show" and a go-go bar. I couldn't believe that Mary's mother would want to go there too (or even allow us to go there), but hey whatever, that's cool! We were in a go-go bar when my wife left to use the bathroom. Taking advantage of me now being alone, one of the dancers sat on the edge of the stage and started flirting with me, reaching out and touching my knee and smiling. The fact that she was definitely a ladyboy was only one of many reasons why I didn't want any attention from him/her. My mother-in-law, seated next to me, was uncontrollably laughing as I conjured up what little Thai I knew in an attempt to get this dancer to leave me alone. It was pretty funny actually.

(More to follow)

Beamer
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:30 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Post by Beamer » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:59 am

(Continued from above)

Back here in the US, sadly, our marriage has been falling apart for the last couple years. We are discussing divorce, mostly at my request. I feel that we are beyond repair, and it would be best for both of us to move on with our lives and part while we don't hate each other. There are a number of reasons for my falling out of love with Mary, but after reading Thailand Fever, I feel that many of them are not due to culture-clash. More like personality-clash, or just heading in different directions with different ideals. Doesn't matter, I'll spare you all the details, except a few that might relate to the book.

One thing that has become more of an issue lately is money and support (cue the dramatic music!). After reading the book, I understand this more, but what really bothers me is that it came out of nowhere. For most of our marriage, she wasn't interested in my money. In fact, we don't even have a joint bank account. She pays some of the bills, but I pay most of them because I make more money than she does. It was a good arrangement, that is until a few of her friends convinced her otherwise. I know it is due to certain friends because she flat out told me so. Her friends (both of whom get a nice supply of money from their man on a very regular basis, even though they make plenty of money of their own) were telling Mary that she was being ripped off by me, that she "deserved" money from me every week just like they get. At first, my wife said they were wrong, that she doesn't believe that. She would come home and tell me about how she felt bad for her friends' husbands. After a while, though, she changed her mind and started asking for money much more often. She would complain that I didn't buy her a nice car. This all bothered me, since I am pretty much living paycheck to paycheck, and she knows it. If I asked her why she needed money when she didn't need it for the previous 5 years, she would get upset and say that it was my job as her husband to give it to her. I was supposed to support her. It seems that the roof over her head was no longer sufficient. This angered me greatly. I felt like my wife had suddenly been brainwashed by her friends into being a gold digger. Things got even worse about a year ago when she was laid off from her job. At least in this case, I can understand her need for money (where an unemployment check and occasional part time work don't provide enough). So why did it get worse? Well, our marriage is deteriorating, and so is her attitude towards me. She actually told me that it was bad that I didn't give her regular money since the first day we were married (though it was never a problem before). She even hinted (just "hinted") that she expected a weekly or monthly sum going forward. Wow. I'm thinking that her hint was just an angry outburst, but it still hit me hard. Our marriage was already a small mess, but with that she just dropped a nuclear bomb on it. I don't understand what is going through her mind. Either way, I only give her enough to cover bills and some spending money when she doesn't have enough.

Another thing about Mary that actually goes completely against Thai culture and what is discussed in the book is her confrontational attitude, even towards strangers. Instead of avoiding conflict, I get the feeling she thrives on it. She can make a mountain out of a mole hill. It embarrasses me, especially since I am very non-confrontational myself (almost as much so as a Thai). This behavior shows up in her driving, too. I'm not talking about the infamous crazy Thai driving. I'm talking about some serious road rage. I'm afraid she's going to get herself killed (either by a car accident, or more likely by a gunshot) due to her behavior on the road, though thankfully after years of pleading from me she has toned it down quite a bit. Ironically, when I confront her about something (big or small), she gets very upset that I am upset at her. Not upset that I am yelling (because usually I am not yelling), just upset that I am upset. She doesn't take criticism well at all. Things quickly flip around to somehow be my fault, though I think that applies in any country, haha!

There are a few things that I don't remember reading in the book (I've also been reading a lot of web sites lately, so the information sources are a bit jumbled in my head). One of them is how superstitious Thai people are. Definitely not all of them, but I've seen it enough to know it's not just my wife! Ghosts are a pretty big deal. Certain actions are bad luck, as well as certain numbers. I found it intriguing seeing the people selling SIM cards in Bangkok, with certain phone numbers costing more. After two minor car accidents (not caused by her road rage, not her fault at all) and a car break-in all in one calendar year, Mary has become quite convinced that she has terrible luck. Plus on top of the car issues, there is the poor state of our marriage. To help bring better luck back into her life, Mary just recently filed to legally change both her first and last name to something completely different, and sadly much harder for farangs to pronounce correctly by simply reading it. Her old name was much prettier and easier to pronounce. She also wanted to change her license plate number, so she went to the RMV and ended up getting into a shouting match with the lady at the counter because Mary wanted to sift through the pile of license plates to find the one with the best numbers and letters. (Honestly, even though I don't agree with Mary's need to change her license plates, I think the RMV employee was quite rude and completely at fault. She told my wife straight to her face "that's stupid" along with other insults.)

Another thing I have noticed is how brutally honest Thai people can sometimes be (which is funny considering how much they try to be nice and save face). For example, it seems to be no big deal for one friend to say to another friend "you're fat." But watch out, don't say that to your American friends! Mary learned that the hard way when she told her best friend (who was noticeably overweight and not happy about it) that she was fat. Mary meant no harm by it, but her friend didn't talk to her for a few weeks. It seems to go the other way around, too, where a Thai person can be brutally honest about themselves. I've heard more than a few cases of too much information! My wife has since learned better, but at first she thought nothing of describing her period and other body functions to her American friends. Her friends would look at me with a shocked look on their face, I would tell them it's a Thai thing (or so my wife tells me), and then tell my wife to stop talking about it because she is either grossing them out or making them uncomfortable. It is rather humorous as long as it doesn't severley insult anybody.

(More to follow)

Beamer
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:30 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Post by Beamer » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:07 pm

(Continued from above)

So in writing what I've said above, my main intent was to discuss some ideas from the book and show how they do or do not seem to apply to my life. It is quite unfortunate that my marriage is most likely going to end, but I can't say it has been a complete loss. Mary and I have had wonderful times together. Even after splitting, we both expect to be on friendly terms and remain friends who see each other once in a while. It seems that we might be better friends than lovers. My life is so much different for having married a Thai lady. I have had the chance to explore a new culture, a new country, learn a new language, learn about Buddhism, meet great people, and so much more that likely never would have happened otherwise. It is to the point where I think that if we do ultimately split, I can't imagine being happy long-term with an average American gal for fear of boredom.

There are many facets of my life that I think would likely drive many farangs crazy after a while. But for me, even after almost a decade, I cherish them. Some of these silly things are as much a part of my life as the blood in my veins. For example, going to a mostly Thai backyard cookout and not having a darn clue what they are talking about half the time. I don't know why exactly, but it doesn't really bother me, I even somewhat enjoy it. Perhaps it is just more exciting that way. Some of the other farang husbands at the parties seem downright miserable or bored, and stick together in a pack drinking beers until it is over, but I tend to spend more time with my wife than the guys. The ladies are just much more energetic and fun. When I went to Bangkok, after having been there several days, I expressed to my friends that when I was walking in the busy streets it almost felt silent and serene. For anyone who has ever been to Bangkok, knowing that it may well be the noisiest place on the planet, you must be thinking that I'm crazy. It was a strange sensation, but I honestly felt it. I was near MBK, surrounded by hundreds or thousands of Thai people all loudly talking about something different, plus the cars, buses, tuk tuks, and all that. I think what happened was that after my brain realized that every spoken word around me was beyond my understanding, it just tuned everything out. I felt a strange peace amidst all the chaos. Other things that might drive some guys nuts are coming home from work every day and hearing a goofy Thai comedy on the TV with the volume set to 11. Watching Korean TV shows with terribly cheesy voice dubbing instead of subtitles. Or how insanely loud Thai women speak on the phone (but only when speaking in Thai, English is normal volume!). Having the kitchen smell quite nasty for two days because of that stinky shrimp paste she just cooked with. Hello Kitty. Oh and I'm sure I could go on. It is a unique and exciting life being married to a Thai!

Thinking a few steps ahead, assuming my wife and I do fill out this divorce paperwork sitting on our table, I can't help but wonder about future romantic relationships. I bought the book Thailand Fever to help me understand my wife, but not expecting it to fix anything this late in the game. Admittedly, I also bought this book to prepare myself for the possibility of meeting another Thai woman in the future. There is not a large Thai population around where I live, so it is not likely that I will meet another wonderful Thai lady, but it is nevertheless my not-so-secret wish. In these past years, I have come to love not only Thai women, but all Thai people, Thai culture, language, and the country Thailand itself. One of my biggest fears going forward is that after a divorce, Thailand and the Thai lifestyle will slowly fade away into a distant memory. That truly scares me. I have something now that I do not want to lose.

What is your story? Success, train wreck, somewhere in between? Has this book helped you avoid a real mess?

And if you've made it this far, thanks for reading. If nothing else, I hope I could have inspired or entertained with my own life's ups, downs, and observations.

LasRobos
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:36 pm
Location: USA

Post by LasRobos » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:57 pm

Hi Beamer,

Thanks for the story. Don't have time to say too much right now, but just want you to know someone is reading this and enjoying your story.

However things end up I wish you the best of luck.

kindel_3
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:31 am

Post by kindel_3 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:38 am

Doubtlessly, you will see the whole Thailand in this small package. After reading this you will feel like you have visited the whole Thailand in pages. It is awesome.
http://markiproperty.com/

uprima
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:45 pm
Location: Germany

Post by uprima » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:30 am

Thanks Beamer for this great story.

Some parts of your life story until then are also reflecting my experiences in 2 longer relationships to thai lady completely.

After 5,5 years in a still remaining relationship your story encourage me to hold on.

And your real life experience in this cross-cultural relationship -
as you said "nothing was lost" - enlightens me, even if my relationship
will fail.
Thank you for that.


You may write me a PM how your life was going on...


Regards
uprima

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